On Sunday’s episode of The Excerpt podcast: On January sixth, 2021, the nation watched as a violent assault unfolded in Washington D.C. That’s when hundreds of supporters of Donald Trump stormed the U.S. Capitol constructing. However how did we get right here? In 2009, a Yale educated legal professional and former Military paratrooper named Stewart Rhodes based a far-right anti-government militia referred to as the Oath Keepers. How did Rhodes come to create, recruit and lead the group whose identify would turn out to be synonymous with the assault on the Capitol? And why is his household terrified that, ought to Donald Trump win the 2024 presidential election, the person they worry most might be pardoned and launched? USA TODAY Nationwide Correspondent and Extremism Reporter Will Carless has spent years protecting the Oath Keepers and the trial of Stewart Rhodes. He joins The Excerpt to share his conversations with Stewart Rhodes’s household.
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Dana Taylor:
Hiya, and welcome to The Excerpt. I am Dana Taylor. Right now is Sunday, October twenty seventh, 2024.
On January sixth, 2021, the nation watched as a violent assault unfolded in Washington DC. That is when hundreds of supporters of Donald Trump stormed the US Capitol Constructing. However how did we get right here? Or quite, how did they get there?
In 2009, a Yale-educated legal professional and former military paratrooper named Stewart Rhodes based a far-right anti-government militia referred to as the Oath Keepers. How did Rhodes come to create, recruit, and lead the group whose identify would turn out to be synonymous with the assault on the Capitol on January sixth? And why is his household terrified that ought to Donald Trump win the 2024 presidential election, the person they worry most might be pardoned and launched?
Tasha Adams:
My ex-husband is Stewart Rhodes. He is the founder and president of the Oath Keepers, the militia who was the mastermind behind the whole January sixth catastrophe; terrorist assault.
Dana Taylor:
That is Tasha Adams, Stewart Rhodes’ now ex-wife. One in every of their youngsters, Dakota Adams, the eldest of six, additionally agreed to talk with us.
Dakota Adams:
If Stewart is launched from jail, my minor siblings particularly must not be in the US anymore, earlier than he has an opportunity to get to Montana. I’ve completely no religion in any safety of the legislation in any respect.
Dana Taylor:
Following his father’s arrest, Dakota made the choice to vary his final identify to his mom’s maiden identify in defiance of his father. USA TODAY Nationwide Correspondent and extremism reporter, Will Carless has spent years protecting the Oath Keepers and the trial of Stewart Rhodes. He lately traveled to Montana to talk with members of Rhodes’ estranged household.
Will, thanks a lot for becoming a member of me.
Will Carless:
Thanks for having me.
Dana Taylor:
To start with, who’re the Oath Keepers? Briefly inform us about their historical past, ideology, and recruitment.
Will Carless:
It is primarily made up of former and present legislation enforcement, former and present navy, and these folks see themselves because the final line of protection in opposition to authorities tyranny. So that they imagine that their job is to type of defend the general public from an overreaching authorities which may attempt to disarm them, may attempt to put them in internment camps and that type of factor. In order that’s who the Oath Keepers are.
Dana Taylor:
As I discussed, you’ve got been reporting on this story for a while. What are you able to inform us about Stewart Rhodes? What was he charged with and in the end convicted of?
Will Carless:
So Rhodes was primarily charged, he was charged with seditious conspiracy, amongst different crimes, which is a particularly severe crime. I imply, it was probably the most severe crime in relation to the January sixth riot. He is been referred to as many occasions one of many masterminds of January sixth, and he primarily is accused of plotting to mainly making an attempt to undermine democracy and overthrow democracy by stopping Congress from ratifying and counting the votes on January sixth to endorse the 2020 election.
He by no means went into the Capitol itself, however he actually was concerned in getting folks there and organizing folks as soon as they had been there. For instance, the Oath Keepers had a stash of weapons in a motel throughout the Potomac that they had been able to entry in the event that they wanted to. They’d one thing referred to as a QRF, or a fast response pressure, which was a bunch of high-level Oath Keepers who presumably had been going to go and get these weapons and use them in the event that they needed to. And so, very, very severe crimes. And he was in the end discovered responsible and he is now sitting in a federal jail, and he is been there for 18 months, and he is speculated to serve one other 18 years or so.
Dana Taylor:
Will, what did the federal government find out about Stewart Rhodes in in regards to the planning behind January sixth at the moment?
Will Carless:
Properly, the federal government had an enormous trove of messages, totally on encrypted messaging apps, between Stewart and his high-level lieutenants, and so they had been in a position to very rigorously and really cleverly use these messages to color an image of those people. Actually, not simply plotting to trigger chaos or, as some folks would have you ever imagine, have a pleasant day on the Capitol, a pleasant day of affection and searching round, however they had been in a position to present that these guys did have actual intentions to overthrow the federal government. I imply, this was primarily, the accusation was that this was a coup try. And Rhodes has just about, not admitted to that, however has mentioned, “Look, we imagine that Trump was going to invoke the Rebellion Act, which might have made what we had been doing authorized, primarily, beneath the Structure.” And so it was painted very a lot as this very severe, very organized coup try that fortuitously for everybody concerned was by no means profitable.
Dana Taylor:
You latterly met with members of Stewart Rhodes’ household. His ex-wife, Tasha Adams fears for her life and the lives of their youngsters if Rhodes is pardoned. I need to begin initially of their relationship and why it took so lengthy for her to see the dysfunction in it. This is what she shared with you relating to that.
Tasha Adams:
I is perhaps a grasp at excusing unhealthy behaviors, actually, and a grasp enabler, sadly, as a result of I made excuses for therefore lengthy, and there have been undoubtedly occasions early on the place he scared me and I assumed it was me playing around; this was on me. He wasn’t bodily violent, however he was screaming.
Dana Taylor:
Will, how lengthy did it take for her to appreciate that her husband, Stewart Rhodes, was a harmful man? What else did she share with you relating to that point of their lives?
Will Carless:
Properly, there isn’t any doubt that the connection between Stewart Rhodes and Tasha Adams deteriorated through the years. It began off like most relationships do, very blissful and carefree, and simply deteriorated over time. And you may type of hint the deterioration of their marriage with the expansion of the Oath Keepers. Tasha describes Stewart Rhodes very a lot as a megalomaniac, a narcissist. And as his group elevated in numbers, elevated in energy, elevated within the income that it was pulling in and the eye it was getting, Stewart, in line with Tasha, went an increasing number of off the rails and have become an increasing number of narcissistic and weird in his habits.
She describes it as a basic abusive relationship between her and her husband. She describes all types of horrible scenes within the household dwelling, the place she claimed Stewart would threaten the youngsters, truly grabbed her daughter by the neck at one level, would wave his gun round and threaten to kill himself however be waving the gun elsewhere. And as Stewart misplaced monitor an increasing number of with actuality, it feels like, in line with her, the household life and the marital life grew to become an increasing number of unstable.
Dana Taylor:
You have lined the case in opposition to Stewart Rhodes and the Oath Keepers, however a lot of this a part of the story offers with the cratering of this man’s household. Had been you shocked they had been prepared to take a seat down with you?
Will Carless:
No, in no way. I have been speaking to Tasha Adams for years now. I imply, proper again to January sixth, and I used to be launched to her by a mutual acquaintance, and we have been speaking on and off. I will simply name her and discuss to her and see how she’s getting on and see how she’s rebuilding her life. So I wasn’t shocked that they’d discuss to me. I solely talked to the oldest son, Dakota. I believe that the opposite youngsters have actually tried to distance themselves and get on with their lives.
There are six youngsters in complete, and I’ve talked to Tasha and to her eldest son, however that is their story. That is their life. I talked to Tasha in regards to the story that is popping out and I mentioned, “Look, I hope you are pleased with this as a result of that is your story. It isn’t my story, it is your story.” And I actually hope that we have carried out you proud when it comes to getting throughout simply how horrible this has been and simply how horrible her present state of affairs is as she waits to see whether or not her abusive husband is let loose of jail and, in line with her, probably comes after her.
Dana Taylor:
Tasha and Stewart finally divorced, however they had been married for fairly a while.
Tasha Adams:
We separated in 2018. We had been married, I believe 24 years. The complete divorce course of took 5 and a half years. So I assume you possibly can say we had been married 30 years, however I hadn’t seen him for the majority of 5 years when that lastly went by. He simply by no means totally blossomed into maturity. I do not know the way else to say it. He graduated from legislation faculty after which fell flat. He bought fired from in all places, appeared to don’t have any work ethic, simply would not do his work.
Dana Taylor:
So Tasha Adams witnessed the making of a militia; the Oath Keepers. Was she initially on board with what Stewart was doing, creating this anti-government group?
Will Carless:
It is a good query, and I believe she would say type of, type of. I imply, you could not be in that relationship and in that cabin with out having some involvement within the Oath Keepers. And the best way that she describes the preliminary basis of the Oath Keepers was that Stewart wished to create what he initially referred to as like an ACLU for the correct. And that sounds fairly noble, proper? I imply, that feels like a fairly honest factor. And I believe that there was a disconnect between what Stewart mentioned he wished to do and what he truly did and what truly started to present itself with the Oath Keepers.
So I believe Stewart initially noticed this as a authorized group that would supply all the pieces from philosophical help to ethical help, to authorized help, to monetary help, to folks on the correct who had been coping with the tyranny of presidency. However sadly, his extra conspiratorial concepts mixed along with his very unstable persona appeared to have simply led to this turning into extra of only a free for all when it comes to what they believed in and when it comes to what they in the end succeeded. Even Tasha would say, “Look, in its unique guise, I’d help what the Oath Keepers had been about, however I will under no circumstances help what Stewart turned them into.” I believe that is what Tasha would say in that state of affairs.
Dana Taylor:
The world was surprised as we watched the occasions of January sixth unfold. Though Tasha and Stewart had been now not collectively by that point, she did after all intimately know the person who has now been convicted of orchestrating it.
Tasha Adams:
Because it turns into clear that Stewart actually is behind this, even, I imagine, behind all the pieces the Proud Boys had been doing. That is his plan, and it appears like one thing I’ve seen him speak about a thousand occasions. So I do know that that is him, however I additionally know that no one else is aware of that that is him. This is a man who is part of this, he has this group and there is this different group and one other group, and so they all got here collectively and so they did this factor. And I began to appreciate that the story is vital. I do know Stewart did this, and the way do I get these folks to know that he did this?
Dana Taylor:
To be clear, this can be a girl who says she was in a decades-long relationship with an abusive man. However she in the end makes the choice to behave.
Tasha Adams:
And I had been in touch that entire time with loads of anti-extremist specialists, “And what’s your opinion on this? What do you assume is happening?” And loads of them had been saying, “I do not know if he’ll get arrested.” Take a look at Bundy ranch. He bought away with that. Ultimately he was arrested, and I can’t inform you, I hate to make use of one thing so overused as curler coaster, but it surely was a celebration second. However then there’s additionally the hurry-up and wait second of, yeah, he is arrested, however what in the event that they let him out on bond?
Will Carless:
Once they had been deciding whether or not he ought to exit on bail, she referred to as into the court docket and mentioned, “Look, I imply, this can be a man who’s had a stash of weapons, who’s had escape tunnels dug away from his dwelling, who has proven each indication of planning, actually, to thwart the federal authorities, and he’ll run away, primarily.” And really bringing it full circle, that is one of many the explanation why Tasha is so apprehensive about Stewart, as a result of she fears that if he will get out of jail, she fears that he sees the continuation of being arrested to nonetheless being in jail now for the subsequent type of 17 years or no matter it’s, that Tasha was an enormous reason behind that as a result of she by no means bought him out on bail, or she was the lacking hyperlink in stopping him from being allowed out on bail, at which level probably he may need been in a position to flee the nation or one thing like that, however he additionally would have been in a position to put together his authorized case.
In order that’s how Tasha sees it. She believes that Stewart very a lot blames her for his present strife and his present incarceration, and that he’ll attempt to wreak his revenge if he is ever allowed out.
Dana Taylor:
Will, you requested her a tricky query, a worst case situation query relating to her fears about Stewart Rhodes.
Will Carless:
So worst case situation, in line with each Tasha and Dakota, is that Stewart is let loose of jail, that he goes on a binge, as they put it, to take pleasure in his freedom, and that he then comes after them, and comes after them with weapons and does them some hurt. That is what they imagine. And notably not simply Tasha, not simply Dakota, but additionally they’re notably apprehensive in regards to the youthful youngsters as properly.
Tasha Adams:
He’s any person that had a kill record, at all times. All the time, at all times, at all times. And he by no means modified the folks on that kill record. And the kill record was speculated to be an inventory he activated that mentioned if he ever bought most cancers or if he ever knew he was going to be arrested, he would go and kill everyone on his record.
Dana Taylor:
Adams mentioned Rhodes’ kill record was in his head. A former Oath Keeper worker agreed with Adams and in addition informed the Home Choose Committee investigating January sixth that Rhodes additionally thought-about making a deck of playing cards itemizing all of the folks he wished to “eliminate.”
Dakota Adams:
On the time, I’d have informed you that Stewart needed to imagine in a historic occasion that might change America ceaselessly. As a result of the lifelong trajectory of his total perception system, going again to even properly earlier than Oath Keepers, Stewart has at all times had a messiahic delusion of grandeur centered round himself and perception in himself as in some way destined to be a savior determine in American historical past. One thing analogous to one of many Mormon prophets goes to be somebody who saves America from civil battle and catastrophe. However I additionally would have informed you that he needed to imagine this as a result of he was too afraid of every other consequence.
Dana Taylor:
Stewart’s son Dakota additionally shared some very severe considerations about his father’s psychological state within the quick aftermath. What did he share with you about his considering now?
Will Carless:
He grew up amongst this. He was the eldest son, and so he was each relied upon by his siblings to guard them and take care of them in Stewart’s absence and beneath Stewart’s tyranny and wrath. So he actually is aware of his dad just about inside and outside. He is apprehensive that his dad is actually simply unhinged and isn’t properly mentally. He mentioned to me that he simply has no religion in any respect within the system to guard him. And I believe that is a part of the juxtaposition right here is that each Tasha and Dakota, and presumably the remainder of the household, lived in worry for therefore lengthy of Stewart, after which he was convicted and he went to jail and so they breathed a sigh of reduction and so they thought, “He is gone. He is lastly locked up. He isn’t going to return again sometime.” And now, after all, they face this specter of him being pardoned by former President Trump and him getting out, and all of that fear and all of that worry has come again once more.
So I believe that there is a certain quantity of trauma there. Clearly these folks have gone by an enormous quantity of trauma with this man, however I additionally do not assume it is essentially unfounded. I imply, this can be a man who sought to overthrow the US authorities and who stashed weapons or ordered folks to stash weapons in preparation for a storming of the US Capitol. So for them to worry that he’ll wreak retribution and revenge in opposition to them, I do not assume is fantasy. I believe that they’ve good cause to have that worry and trepidation. And in the end, no one is aware of higher than them. They lived with him. Tasha lived with him for nearly three many years. She is aware of him higher than anyone else, and he or she’s completely terrified.
Dana Taylor:
I do know that you just requested an interview with Stewart Rhodes, however he is to this point refused. What has his legal professional mentioned in regards to the claims being made by the household?
Will Carless:
His attorneys, to the extent that they’ve communicated about this, have strenuously denied it. They’ve mentioned that there is completely no fact to those claims. They’ve identified, I believe pretty, that look, Stewart and Tasha had been estranged for a few years, for a number of years between the divorce and January sixth, and at no level in that point did Stewart try and hurt her or to hurt the youngsters. They’ve primarily mentioned, look, this can be a fantasy cooked up by Tasha and Dakota, and that is by no means going to occur. In response to that, Tasha mentioned, “Properly, look, I imply, you are proper. Stewart did not come after me. However he was additionally planning an riot, so he had a spotlight elsewhere.” And what she worries about is submit any type of pardon, if he does get out of jail, there isn’t any longer that riot at play and there isn’t any longer that planning to be carried out. And he or she worries that what fills the vacuum is retribution in opposition to his household.
Dana Taylor:
What has former President Donald Trump mentioned about pardoning those that’ve now been convicted for his or her function within the storming of the US Capitol constructing on January sixth, 2021?
Will Carless:
Just about each time he is requested about this, President Trump has carried out what President Trump does, which is to type of make a broad sweeping assertion. “Sure, after all I’ll pardon them.” However then he at all times caveats it somewhat bit. In the event that they’re harmless, he’ll pardon them, is what he mentioned at a convention a number of months in the past. However he has more and more ramped up the rhetoric in terms of January sixth. I imply, he referred to as it a “day of affection” lately. He is talked about how these persons are akin to political prisoners. Lots of people have a look at what he is saying and say, “Properly, it would be very troublesome for him to take workplace and to not pardon them, given what he is mentioned at this level.”
Now, we did attain out to the Trump marketing campaign. They responded and mentioned that he would contemplate pardons on a case-to-case foundation. They would not remark particularly on the Stewart Rhodes case. You may have a look at it and you possibly can say, properly, look, this is among the two most severe instances on this occasion, but it surely’s additionally not a violence case. Stewart Rhodes did not hit anyone. He did not strike anyone. He did not shoot anyone. What he did was he deliberate. And for those who have a look at what he deliberate, he deliberate an motion that was in furtherance of President Donald Trump on the time. And there are all types of fascinating connections between Stewart Rhodes and Donald Trump.
So there may be undoubtedly a situation the place President Trump might say, “Look, I am not going to pardon individuals who beat up Capitol law enforcement officials or who smashed issues within the Capitol, however I’m going to pardon all of the nonviolent criminals.” And extremely, that features Stewart Rhodes, as a result of he did not commit any acts of violence. And so I do not assume it is in any method inconceivable that Trump does pardon Rhodes and lets him out of jail.
Dana Taylor:
Will, thanks a lot for becoming a member of me on The Excerpt.
Will Carless:
It is at all times a pleasure. Thanks.
Dana Taylor:
Because of our senior producers, Shannon Rae Inexperienced and Kaely Monahan for his or her manufacturing help. Our government producer is Laura Beatty. Tell us what you consider this episode by sending a observe to podcasts@usatoday.com. Thanks for listening. I am Dana Taylor. Taylor Wilson might be again tomorrow morning with one other episode of The Excerpt.
